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Re: When would you NOT use OpenBSD?

Chris 'Xenon' Hanson wrote:
Hannah Schroeter wrote:
IIRC there're consultants offering commercial services around OpenBSD,
too. So you could've hired one to fix the Broadcom problem of yours,
just like you paid for Nortel's on-site troubleshooting.

Not to inflame the issue, but this isn't as solid of an argument as it appears. Knowing in advance whether you'll be able to find a consultant who knows enough about your problem to fix it is very tenuous.

I'm not saying vendor support is always reliable either, but generally a commercial vendor is expected to understand the depths of their own product.

The ONLY difference is that with a Vendor, you can pick a telephone can call a number, but then what's the difference after that I ask you?


- Customer required to have Vendor support by insecure manager.
- So, customer get SmartNet from Cisco.
- Manager fell great and secure.

Time pass.

- Problem come up.
- Use phone and call.
- Get the usual auto answer. " Please listen carefully as our routing have change. For router support press 1. For firewall support press 2..."
- Wait, wait, wait some more.
- Get someone to take your information for a queue call back.
- Hang up. Soon get an personal email with a bunch of URL for self support. Most of with you already read if you did your homework.

- Wait some more.
- Get a call back from someone asking you to do "show tech-support" and go to the Cisco web interface and past that in there so they will get the information and call you back when they have looked at it over.

- Do the above and wait some more.
- Get a few more emails from the same tech support with more URL for you to read.
- None worked for you, so get more emails with more URL.

- In the end, if you do your homework, you find your own problem as you know more then the guys that pick up your tickets anyway.

- You search on google and bang found your answer!
- Apply it to your system all gets better

- Manager is happy and tell everyone.

- "See this is great to have support from Cisco" We get our problem solved when we have any.

- In between time, your Cisco guys call you back a week later and tell you that you should try this.
- You answer thanks, but I solved my problem.
- Cisco support close the ticket with yet an other problem solved in their stats.
- Cisco brag about great support and customer satisfaction.

- A few days later you get a survey via emails asking you to rate the Cisco support you got for them to improve their support.

- You pass it to your manager as he wants to control the PR of your company, he answer it with all praise to Cisco.

- Next year come and your manager renew the same SmartNet contract.

Sound to familiar to some thanks!

That's what you get with Vendor support, just fussy false feeling to be taken care of.

But I asked you, when is the last time you got an email form the guy that actually compile the ISO that runs on your Cisco box for example. May be that one might understand your problem?

With OpenBSD, you have a bug with PF, you may well get an email back from Daniel. You have a bug with NTP, Henning may well answer you. You have a bug with OpenBGPd, Henning or Claudio may well answer you. You have a bug with a drive in the PCI buss or something, you may well get an answer from Brad, etc. Should I continue! What Vendor will provide you answers from the same people that design the product I asked you. So, with Vendor is more qualify to fix the issue correctly the first time! What Vendor will send you diff the same day to fix issue. What Vendor will address security issue in a timely fashion?

I don't know but it sound to me very clear witch one I would go with.

I guess what's really missing to be exactly the same for OpenBSD and the various Vendor is this.

A phone number that you can call that gets an auto attendant answer with the standard shit like " Please pay attentions as your routing have changed, etc" Then you are asked to enter your email address using your touch tone phone after witch the system hangup and process it as such.

- You select 1 for PF support, so you get a personal email back with the usual meaning less ticket number in it and the usual URL, but this time exactly with the proper information in that email with:


Or you get this: http://openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html when you press 2 for installation support, etc.

And as a bonus you get a bunch more URL that are all query for Google to return the same type of URL stuff that Cisco would return to you for their own support contract.

Oh and don't forget the "show tech-support" part, same thing here as usual always asked here, but instead is called dmesg and the email address you are asked to send it at is misc_(_at_)__(_dot_)_ Same thing!

But then your manager have the same fussy feeling and your problem get solved the same way anyway.

Doesn't this sound very familiar and similar to you?

I don't know, sure does to me.

The only difference is that is solved all the finance problem of OpenBSD in the process and gets us an even more stable and secure OS that needs even less support!

Oh and I forgot the same standard answers as well here. Just like if you called IBM for ssh support, even with a support contract you pay a lots for it, the answer you get is, well go asked OpenSSH to fix the issue, that's their issue not ours. So, the OpenBSD project can be as professional as IBM and provide the same level of support in an automated system as well with the same type of reply as you get, but this time for the previous X example. That's nothing to do with OpenBSD dead paying customers, if you have a problem with X, go asked X, it's up to them to fix it.

Yea right!

Go for Vendor support, it's great!

All the same to me if you look at it deeper, except that OpenBSD would use the money they would get in a much better and more ethical ways I bet you!

OK, that's my last email on this subject. I said everything I had to say about it! If the above doesn't show the Irony in it, nothing will! But picking something for Vendor support justifications, please give me a break!

From someone that have been screw over and over, and continue to be, because of lock in, with Vendor support contract and always find the answer it needs on Google or various mailing list anyway in the end!

Done and no more answer from me on this tread. It just to frustrating and I am better to shut up before I say something I will regret.

So, now please go by your CD now:


and support contract now:


with phone support as well, just like Cisco does! (:>

Call it the DixonNet if you like and renew it every 60 days!

Signing off!

Truly your!

Daniel Ouellet
Your hard working support team at work 24/7! (:>