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Re: USB2 (EIDE) bad mojo...

Johan M:son Lindman wrote: 
On Tuesday 19 July 2005 21:43, you wrote:

have read it. And it doesn't say anything about trying current instead
of the "stable" branch as I have. Your hint doesn't help most users as
they don't run current but stable. This OpenBSD list seems to be filled
with some of the most discourteous netizens I've encountered. If you

You know, every so often people who actually get good sound advice on this list go all defensive, that's strange considering the people who help you are actually doing you a favour, they go out of their way to help you.

They probably go "all defensive" because of the tone of the advise given. It's very often RTFM with user laziness implied. When it would be more productive to say go read about something specific as it pertains to the problem. Most users don't know enough to figure out what part of the docs they should be reading and really do need the extra help. So from a user perspective answering with just RTFM seems discourteous.

And specifically my example; Telling me to go read the how to report bugs page seemed irrelevant to me and I perceived it as "you should go read how to properly submit bug reports, you lazy user". Especially given that it doesn't mention that a possibly debugging avenue is to try with current kernels.

wanted to say that I should use the current because there is a know
problem pertaining to my situation that was fixed in current -- Then say
so. And yes I have read the changelog for current and it does have
entries for umass. But they provide no indication as to what problems
the changes address. So they are useless from a users perspective. And

Changelogs are not useless, of course.

Of course not :-) Didn't say they weren't. Just that from a user perspective it's not enough to know what changed, we also need to know why it changed.

Anyways you don't HAVE to comprehend the changelog, that's why I told you to try -current, then you'd see first hand if it works or not.

Actually you only "hinted" in a parenthetical to the RTFM comment. This implies that it was something I could find in the doc you pointed to. Maybe you have a misconception about what "hint" means.

I'm not about to go digging in source histories and sources themselves
to find out any more information than what is in the changelog.

So please, if you, or others know of specific changes that pertain to my
problem mention them. And I will try and figure out a way to use that

As usual everyone else should do your [digging searching testing] for you, why am I not suprised?

Because you have a preconceived notion that everyone has read all the docs and all the code and all the posts and has full knowledge before asking for help. Users may read a good portion of the docs and a smaller portion of the posts while doing searches for the issue they face. But they are just about never going to go did into the _source code_ for answers. And as a developer one should strive to never have users reading through source code.

specific part of current, because I just can't follow current on a
production server (as other users will also tell you). And if there's a


This is the main problem right there.
You're tinkering and fiddling with a production server.
Don't.

I am not tinkering with anything. I am deploying what supposedly was supported hardware. And I asked ahead of time what experiences there where with USB2 and hardware. If the answer had been there have been some problems, I would have taken the route of experimenting on the non-production server.

FAQ on how to use only some specific current changes, instead of the
complete ball of wax, that would also be appreciated.

No it doesn't work that way.
Back porting changes from -current to -stable is not recommended nor supported. 

OK, good to know :-)

Just go for -current and you'll be good.

Well unfortunately as you saw in my other post the problem I'm having is also in current.

As Theo like to stress from time to time, the quality of -current snapshots is very high.

That's also good to know... But it would have been better to mention that on your original reply ;-) Users are always scared of trying the bleeding edge.


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