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Re: Gnutella and DMCA warnings



Your legal department don't appear to know the law.

*** What evidence do you have to show that have broken the AUP ? ***

If you disconnected me, you would be in breach of contract and
I would have your arse in court that week.

The judge/magistrate would then ask you where your evidence is...
...you would say
  "We got a letter from some record company",
they would then say
  "That's it? We find in favour of Mr Devitto, costs and damages.
Goodbye."

Dom
Oh, and I work with the AUP and legal teams of an ISP with 3 *million*
customers.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dom De Vitto                                       Tel. 07855 805 271
http://www.devitto.com                         mailto:dom_(_at_)_devitto_(_dot_)_com
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org [mailto:owner-misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey Hice
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:32 AM
To: misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org
Subject: Re: Gnutella and DMCA warnings


I work for a national cable modem ISP and the DMCA is a pain in our ass.
The way our legal department has explained it to us is the traffic on
our network is our responsibility and therefore if we do not provide a
good faith effort to stop the violator then the company is totally
responsible for the infringement. 

That being said, here is how we track down the violators. First, we
receive email from the RIAA/MPAA on the file that is in violation and
the time of the offense and the time it occurred. We log once an hour
who has the IP's with their cable modem mac. This is just dumped into a
text file and kept for a year. (A year on a 5000 user network is about
600MB of text files) I made a webpage to search the text files when we
entered in the IP and time frame. The logs being once an hour and our
lease times being 6 hours has been proven as sufficient evidence to send
a warning/termination of service letter to the customer. (We use a 2
strike policy)

Hope this helped.

Jeffrey Hice
864-587-8393

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org [mailto:owner-misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org] On Behalf
Of Greg
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:52 AM
To: Jon Ikegami; misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org
Subject: Re: Gnutella and DMCA warnings

I believe that the DMCA act requires the RIAA/MPAA to tell you EXACTLY
what it is that they want taken down, specifically URLs, and just
exactly what on that URL is in violation.  A general "we suspect you are
in violation, though we don't have any specifics" is not good enough.  I
would ask them for specifics. If they have anything (like the IP
address) of a violator then they are required to give it up, otherwise
it is just a fishing expedition and I would ignore it.  If they don't
have any specifics, then how do they know it is YOUR users ?

Unless you mess with the content (i.e. like a publisher) then you fall
into the category of a services provider (i.e. the telephone company)
and are not responsible for your users use of your service, outside of
your Terms of Service.  However, only a few large ISP's have been able
to hold onto this.

Needless to say, I am not a lawyer & ymwv blah blah blah.

Greg Canter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org [mailto:owner-misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org]On Behalf
Of
> Jon Ikegami
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:27 AM
> To: misc_(_at_)_openbsd_(_dot_)_org
> Subject: Re: Gnutella and DMCA warnings
>
>
> Okay okay, I'm sure a lot of us here would like to give the RIAA/MPAA
the
> collective finger, but that's probably not the point if you're the 
> owner/admin of a small ISP that probably can't afford to take the 
> RIAA/MPAA to court in order to let the shaft themselves.  Remember, 
> theft is
theft,
> even if we are a bit hypocritical at times.
>
> In reality, I'm sure the RIAA/MPAA would be quite willing to negotiate

> realistic terms.  They are not in the business to destroy small ISPs.
I
> personally have a problem with "quietly" logging "suspicious" traffic 
> without the users knowledge, but would if you're a small ISP it may be

> reasonable to renew the TOS, discuss it with whoever it is taking
action
> against you, and disclosing the fact with your customers that illegal 
> use of the internet will not be tollerated, and logging/sniffing of 
> traffic
WILL
> OCCUR if the RIAA/MPAA seems to find illegal activity.
>
> That said, you may really, really want to talk to other ISP's of your
size
> since I'm SURE someone else has been nearly shafted in the past.  If
there
> are people in the same situation, you may even be able to lower the 
> costs of a legal defense/consultation if others are willing to split 
> the cost.
>
> My 2yen,
>
> Jon
>
> > Tell the RIAA (or is it MPAA this time ?) to "technically" go fuck 
> > it self. That is the only solution worth considering.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 09:26:11AM -0500, Marina Brown wrote:
> > > Hi All:
> > >
> > >      I am the sysadmin of a small ISP that just got DMCA Take Down

> > > Demands with regards to material that some of our users were
> serving out
> > > with Gnutella.  As it is a rather vexatious task to look through
all
> > > our radius logs to disable the user accounts that were responsible
for
> > > these copyright violations, i would be interested in hearing about
any
> > > technical solutions (pf).