Re: jive - what is the message being sent here

[Nicholas Merrill <lists@mojo.calyx.net>]

On 13 Dec 1999, Matt Curtin wrote:

> >>>>> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 16:31:45 -0500 (EST),
> >>>>> Nicholas Merrill <lists@mojo.calyx.net> said:
> 
> Nicholas> I have wanted to bring this up for a while- Is it really in
> Nicholas> the best interest of the mainstream acceptance of OpenBSD to
> Nicholas> include 'jive' in the ports tree?
> 
> Rejecting an addition to the ports collection on the basis that it
> might offend some is the beginning of an extremely slippery slope of
> deciding what should and shouldn't be allowed to be contributed on the
> basis of political interpretation of its content.
> 
> There are many programs floating around that do manipulation of text.
> We've got dissociators, Newspeak interpreters, Hillbilly interpreters, 
> etc.

Yes they exist and like I said I agree that everyone can run whatever
programs they want.  I can't find a hillbilly, newspeak interpretor or
anything containing 'dissociat' in the ports collection.  The ports
collection doesn't seem to have any similar programs which are racist
towards whites, asians, hispanics etc.

That arguement might be more valid if those programs were in the ports
collection, which as far as I can tell they aren't.  That jive is in the
ports collection implies that the OpenBSD community whole-heartedly
endorses jive.

Please keep in mind I'm not advocating that jive be banned from the net,
even if that were possible to do.  I'm not a censor.  I happen to host
the NYCLU homepage (www.nyclu.org) pro-bono.

I'm just asking how having jive in the official ports tree reflects upon
the OpenBSD project.

> We've got fortunes that those of a sensitive constitution might find
> offensive. 

I practically never install the games distro so I can't speak on that
 
> We've got commands that could be put into programs like this:
> 
> touch
> finger
> unzip
> strip
> mount
> loop
> mv
> if count> variable(range between 50-500)
> halt
> fi
> end loop
> unmount
> sleep

I can hardly see how someone building a 'dirty' story out of standard unix
commands compares to jive.  Unlike jive, those program have real
purposes.  Jive has no purpose other than to promote racist humor.

Are you trying to suggest that taking jive out of ports is a slippery
slope because next, some puritans will want to remove the touch, finger
unzip, mount etc commands becuase you can make that into what you did?

Does anyone else find this line of reasoning to be a bit of a stretch?

> If someone finds it offensive, he can opt not to install it.  It's not
> like it's installed by default.

True someone can choose not to install it.

Conversely, if it was not in the ports tree, someone could choose
to download it and install it.  I'm not suggesting that we install some
kernel mod that recognizes jive and won't let it compile.

The main difference is the endorsement of the OpenBSD project.


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