Re: mozilla/bloatzilla users please test

[Jolan Luff <jolan@mezzanine.servebeer.com>]

On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 05:34:14PM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> > "bloatzilla" while accurate, doesn't fix the stated problem.  It will
> > still be there.
> 
> You ENTIRELY miss the point.
> 
> People do not live in a vacuum.
> 
> They think "hmm, I need a browser"
> Then they say "oh I heard about mozilla"
> then they install it
> 
> You think they should install the CRAPPY BLOATED PIECE OF SHIT by default.
>
> We think otherwise.

This doesn't solve the problem, it just adds more confusion over the
Mozilla namespace, which there has been plenty of since they have
problems picking non-infringing names.

Naming it bloatzilla is stupid.  It is the equivalent of kindergarten
playground name calling.

By disabling the irc client, mail, and news, you get just a browser.  It
will be a bit bigger than firebird due to differences in the UI code,
but otherwise it's pretty close.

The bloat comes from features like the irc client and mail/news.  These
features can be disabled, and optionally enabled via FLAVOR if the user
really wants to spend the time compiling it (or we could add it to the
package building list...)

> > sent loud and clear without the risk of confusing the heck out of people
> > ("what's bloatzilla?") and possibly breaking other ports.
> 
> confused people?  over that?  Who gives a rats ass.  This is not about
> those people.
> 
> This is about regular joe doing pkg_add mozilla*

Joe Schmoe can't do ls or pkg_info first..?

> That's what he thinks he should do, and in OpenBSD, he will end up
> with the choice he things he is making. He thinks that gets him a
> simple browser, and it will give him what he thinks he wants and
> needs.  It will not fill his drive and memory with a beached whale.

Depends which context you're using "simple" in.

simple meaning easy to use is not firebird.  You have to edit user.js
and friends to turn on & off features that are togglable in the Mozilla
preferences menu.

simple meaning small(er) can be done by disabling chatzilla, mail, &
news.

If we do go this route, can I change the emacs pkg and binary name to
"bloatedfuckingeditor" and change vim to emacs?  I wouldn't want anyone
to accidentally install their favorite bloated editor by accident.
After all, vim can use emacs keybindings and is smaller:

 2754702 Sep 02 13:10 vim-6.2.68-no_x11.tgz
10242134 Sep 02 13:04 emacs-21.3-no_x11.tgz

In short, Mozilla and firebird are functionally different.  There are
firebird-only bugs and mozilla-only features (and vice versa).  If you
want mozilla cut down to just be a browser via FLAVORs, I'm more than
happy to do that.  I don't really get your pkg_add mozilla* point.  I
have been told for 3+ years that OpenBSD is by developers for
developers, and that it is well documented.  Regular Joe should know
about pkg_info.  If not, he should sure as hell know about ls.  If not,
then he should sure as hell be able to decide which browser he wants for
himself, if indeed he was naive enough to run pkg_add mozilla* before
looking to see what that would do and ended up with two browsers to play
with.